Jim Smith, Full Transcript

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Jim Smith (JS) talks to W.R. Mitchell (WRM) about sheep farming on Ingleborough, describing sheep gathering and shearing in particular.


[Start of interview - 00:22:44]

WRM: What’s your name?

JS: Jim Smith.

WRM: Jim Smith?

JS: Yes.

WRM: Yes, and you were at Whinney Mire?

JS: That’s right.

WRM: Were you born there?

JS: No.

WRM: You weren’t?

JS: No.

WRM: No? How long have you been at Whinney Mire?

JS: All me life.

WRM: You had?

JS: Yeah.

WRM: Yeah, you went there as a baby did you?

JS: Yeah.

WRM: Yeah? Ah yes. What was your father’s name?

JS: Joseph Waller.

WRM: Joseph? Ah yes, and he farmed there did he for quite a few years?

JS: Yeah.

WRM: Whinney Mire, that was one of the farms that had the sheep up on Ingleborough, was it?

JS: That’s right.

WRM: Yeah, whereabouts on Ingleborough?

JS: On t’lower edge o’ Crina Bottom rocks, like.

WRM: Ah yes, how does it work on this side? Teddy Dawson’s told me about Newby and Clapham commons, and how they work that, but how did the Ingleton men work it? Was it stinted?

JS: No, there were boundaries, stones right up like onto Ingleborough.

WRM: What kind of boundary?

JS: Just a stone up, with Newby at one side and Ingleton on the other.

WRM: Aye, what has it got on one side, Newby?

JS: N for Newby and I a’t other for Ingleton.

WRM: Oh yes, where’s the stone?

JS: Well, it’s ‘alf way between t’fell gate an’ Bleak Bank like. Yer know, straight up?

WRM: Yes. So you were up on White Scar moor were you?

JS: Yeah. Well, we bought a lot of land at Skirwith, yer see?

WRM: Oh, I see.

JS: And we’ve got our sheep heathed o’er that side, yer see.

WRM: Was it stinted at all?

JS: No.

WRM: It wasn’t?

JS: No.

WRM: No, no. Was it in a fence?

JS: No, no fence, no.

WRM: You just let ‘em open?

JS: Yeah, they heathed on their own ground, like.

WRM: Aye, so they were heathed were they?

JS: Yeah.

WRM: What kind of sheep did you keep in the old days?

JS: Dalesbred; Dalesbred and Swaledales.

WRM: They’ve always been that for years, have they?

JS: Yeah.

WRM: It’d be very rocky up there, wouldn’t it?

JS: No, it’s not so bad.

WRM: Isn’t it?

JS: No.

WRM: So you’d drive them up Crina Bottom, would you?

JS: No, from at Cold Cotes.

WRM: Cold Cotes? Ah yes?

JS: Yeah, where we’ve land up t’dale, yer see, they used to meet back over that way yer see across heath, like.

WRM: Oh, I see. Yeah. So you were just this side of Newby Moss were you?

JS: Yeah.

WRM: I see, yeah. And how often did you gather them up there?

JS: Well, there was t’clippin’, dippin’, then t’ [unclear 00:25:17 – draft?], an’ dippin’ again.

WRM: Yes, that’s right. And you gathered them down to Newby Cote then, did you?

JS: No, Cold Cotes.

WRM: Cold Cotes?

JS: Yeah.

WRM: Ah yes. And what was there down there, were there some enclosures, or crofts or anything?

JS: No, we made some pens, like. We used to ketch ‘em all out, every farmer... it used to be a heck of a job, and then we put a shedder in. That was no work at all. Once we’d put a shedder in every man ‘ad ‘is own gate, yer see?

WRM: Oh, I see.

JS: And let ‘em into ‘is own pen, you see? And then t’sheep got to know their pen, like.

WRM: Oh, did they?

JS: Yeah.

WRM: So you brought them all down together?

JS: Yeah, we used to arrange a day and all go that day, you see.

WRM: Yes. Was there a group of you?

JS: Yes, all t’farmers round about went up. All Ingleton side went together, yer see. Newby men they’d go together, yer see.

WRM: That’s right. Now the Ingleton men, did you used to have a meeting every year?

JS: No.

WRM: No, you just got in touch with each other?

JS: Yeah. Well, it was arranged nearly from one year end to t’other like, yer know?

WRM: Yeah. It wasn’t like Austwick where you met at the Village Hall once a year and had a natter?

JS: No.

WRM: I remember John Chapman saying, ‘This’ll make t’old ewes late for a bit of fodder’, you know? He used to lay on a bit of diamond fodder when he weren’t there. And the Ingleton men, which were years ago, which farms?

JS: Goat Gap, Sunderlands, High Leys, Nutgill, Holly Platt, Slatenber and Yarlsber. Who else were there? Sam Wellands at Cold Cotes, Brackenber, Round Farm, Dickie Metcalfe at Goat Gap...

WRM: And some of those are no longer farms, are they?

JS: What now? No, High Leys is gone. Oh, there was Brass from Nutgill.

WRM: Mr Brass?

JS: Yeah, from Nutgill.

WRM: Nutgill. What was his first name?

JS: It were Douglas, like it’s young John now what ‘as it, his nephew.

WRM: Where’s Nutgill?

JS: On t’Bentham road.

WRM: Ah, yes, yeah.

JS: Going to Bentham, you know?

WRM: And so the Ingleton men, they put theirs up on the hill at Cold Cotes and the area generally speaking was round Ingleton. How far up the dale did it go into Chapel-le-Dale, not far?

JS: What?

WRM: The area covered with your sheep.

JS: Oh, they went right up to t’far end o’ t’dale, like.

WRM: Did they?

JS: Yeah, on t’fell, like. And there were Bob Capstick, at Fell End ‘ere, ‘e turned up.

WRM: Right. And so you arranged from year to year about rounding them up. What time of day did you set off to round them up?

JS: Well, in summer with t’hot weather we’d be up at four o’clock or three o’clock in t’morning like, before the heat got up like an’ get ‘em down yer see? Especially with hay-time, like, we’d get ‘em down an’ they were clipped an’ back like, yer know?

WRM: So what was the routine? You sent some men up to the wall at the top did you? Did you go right up to the top of Ingleborough?

JS: Well, I used to take ‘em up in t’Landrover, up t’dale?

WRM: Did you? You took the men up there?

JS: Yeah. I did at t’latter end like, but I used to go at t’far end like, but this last five to ten year I had to go up t’dale like, yer know?

WRM: How far up did you go?

JS: Up to just past Dale House there.

WRM: Ah, yes, which is that?

JS: Yer know where t’road turns back down towards [unclear 00:29:03 – Barge’s?], down t’back road?

WRM: Oh, yes.

JS: We used to go up there an’ turn round at that road end. Well, they ‘adn’t far to walk onto t’fell there.

WRM: Oh yes, near the Church?

JS: Yeah, you hadn’t far to walk then up on the fell, you see?

WRM: Yeah, because you hadn’t any sheep up on the scars, had you? It was on the lower part, was it?

JS: Oh no, they used to go right up on t’scars.

WRM: Did they?

JS: Yeah, right to t’far end.

WRM: Right up to [unclear 00:29:23 – Ark?], is it they call it?

JS: No, right up past Ark, right on there.

WRM: Did they? And did they go right to the top of the hill?

JS: Yeah.

WRM: So it would be a heck of a job rounding them up?

JS: Well, it was, years gone by yer know, because all t’walls got down up there, so we’d right away to Ribblehead to go to.  Where t’rails were down in t’top fields these crossed right across to Ribblehead. Years gone by all t’fences got knocked down, yer see?

WRM: Yeah. But have they been all put up now?

JS: They’re all put up now, aye.

WRM: So it’s better now than it used to be?

JS: Oh, yeah.

WRM: So at gathering time then, you got up early in the morning and in the old days you got to set off, what, on a horse?

JS: No, I walked it.

WRM: Walked it?

JS: Yes, I allus walked it.

WRM: You’d have to walk up the dale...?

JS: No, we used to walk right up t’fell from Cold Cotes.

WRM: Ah yes, that’s right.

JS: Straight up.

WRM: Up onto t’top of Ingleborough?

JS: Yeah, an’ round back.

WRM: And then bring ‘em all down. Did the sheep shed themselves?

JS: Well, Newby side sheep went that way and Ingleton side went this way, yer see?

WRM: Oh, I see.

JS: They’d an idea wheear to go.

WRM: So you went up with t’Newby men, did you?

JS: Yeah, they’d all go t’same day, Clapham an’ all; they all gathered t’same day if they could like.

WRM: So there’d be a few thousand sheep floating about?

JS: Aye, there were, aye.

WRM: And when you came down to Cold Cotes you brought them all together at one time, but then later you had this little pen, did you?

JS: Well, every farmer rented ‘is own pen at t’fell bottom, yer see? When we used to allus catch ‘em out on t’fell every farmer had to ‘old pen, well, that were hard work so we put a shedder in. While sheep run at this shedder; an’ every man stood at his own pen wi’ gaites comin’ up ‘e let ‘em through, yer see?

WRM: Oh, I see.

JS: They get to know an’ all, they knew their own pens.

WRM: Did they? What sort of a fell is Ingleborough?

JS: It’s alright.

WRM: It is?

JS: Yeah.

WRM: Is it good for sheep?

JS: Oh, aye.

WRM: There used to be a bit more heather up there did there at one time? Old Georgie Berry used to say.

JS: There used to be one side all heather. I remember our old fella tell he used to walk from Bleak Bank over to Crina Bottom House, yer know? They used to have cows there, an’ he said he used to walk on t’heather. It used to spring as they walked on it, yer know?

WRM: Do you remember when Crina Bottom was a farm?

JS: No.

WRM: But your father did?

JS: Yes, Grandfather did, an’Father, aye.

WRM: What was your Grandfather called?

JS: J.W.

WRM: J.W.?

JS: Smith.

WRM: Smith. And he remembered when Crina Bottom was a farm?

JS: Oh, he used to get ‘ay there an’ feed t’cows there.

WRM: Did he?

JS: He used to walk from Bleak Bank over to feed ‘em in winter.

WRM: Who had the farm?

JS: Eh?

WRM: Who had the farm?

JS: I don’t know who’d ‘ave it then. It’d ‘appen be… I couldn’t tell you who ‘ad it. But it was some relation of t’Smith family, like, like what ‘ad it.

WRM: Yeah, and your Grandfather, when he was young he used to walk across there did he? From where?

JS: Bleak Bank.

WRM: From Bleak Bank? He used to live at Bleak Bank did he?

JS: Yeah, he were workin’ there, like. An’ he used to walk across to Crina Bottom to feed t’cows in winter.

WRM: Yeah, gosh, that’s nice. An’ there used to be some fields round it were there?

JS: Yeah, well there still are, it is like.

WRM: Was there meadows?

JS: Yeah.

WRM: Yeah. And they used to make hay there, did they?

JS: Yeah.

WRM: Get their Irishmen from Bentham, did they?

JS: That’s right, aye.

WRM: [Laughs] That’s right. [Unclear 00:32:44 – Amber?] Ewbank was telling me about going up. He said that he worked for his uncle up at Newby Cote and he said he got half way up Ingleborough one day, he was supposed to be gathering sheep, and t’mist came down and he went up for t’sheep and in the end they brought him down.

JS: [Laughs] Aye.

WRM: He followed them! [Laughs]

JS: Yeah.

WRM: Yeah, so you’ve had some do’s up Ingleborough then?

JS: Aye, ’47 was a bad ‘un, I’ll tell ye.

WRM: Do you remember it?

JS: I do that.

WRM: Yeah? What happened that time?

JS: Oh, we lost a lot o’ sheep. Well people did, we weren’t so bad. Gypsies come an awful lot. They buried t’sheep for t’wool.

WRM: Did they?

JS: An’ they used to pull all t’wool of it an’ take it up onto where you ‘ad a bit o’ waste ground over that railway; common ground, is it?

WRM: Yeah?

JS: Clapham Bottoms? I don’t know whether they call it Clapham Bottoms or not. And they used to ‘ave it all spread out to dry, and the smell were terrible.

WRM: What happened? The dead sheep were all dropped into a pot-hole, were they?

JS: Well, I don’t know what they did, they had to bury them like, but for t’wool; they used to pull all t’wool off ‘em an’ then tek it out round t’caravans to dry.

WRM: This was after they’d been buried?

JS: No, they took t’wool of ‘em first. They’d pull all t’wool off.

WRM: Oh, I see, yeah. This was the gypsies?

JS: Aye, an’ the smell, it were terrible.

WRM: This was before the farmers got at ‘em?

JS: No, they made ‘em tek ‘em, t’save ‘em burying ‘em, yer see?

WRM: Oh, I see. What did they do with the bodies?

JS: They’d bury ‘em, I think.

WRM: Yeah, and were there hundreds?

JS: Oh, thousands.

WRM: Of sheep?

JS: Aye, thousands went down.

WRM: What, on Ingleborough?

JS: Aye, well, an’ down in t’land, yer know; it lasted that long, yer know?

WRM: Do you remember it starting?

JS: I do that, aye.

WRM: What happened?

JS: Well, it was just some o’ similar weather as this; wet back end an’ then it come February ‘til about March.

WRM: It was a north-easter, was it?

JS: It was that. It filled all t’roads. We must have dug eight or ten times Cotes’ road out, as fast we dug it out it filled it again. To fetch all the milk and proven we went through t’field like, through our field. We ‘ad to pull t’walls down to get up to village.

WRM: And the point is that you hadn’t much warning to get the sheep down, had you?

JS: Oh, we ‘ad plenty warning. We ‘ad ‘em down, yer see?

WRM: Oh, you’d brought ‘em all down?

JS: They was down, yer see, they were down ‘ere, aye. But the trouble was they ‘adn’t watter, that was t’trouble.

WRM: So the sheep were brought down for lambing were they?

JS: Well, they didn’t lamb while April, like, but they allus come down for winter, yer see? There are not many sheep up in winter, like.

WRM: Oh, so there was nothing much up on Ingleborough?

JS: No. The fella at Dale House, Brown they called him (he’s dead now), he let all ‘orses on an’ ‘e never bothered with ‘is sheep. I went up one day an’ dead sheep were showin’ out o’ t’snow an’ t’horses were eating wool off ‘em. Hungry to death.

WRM: Horses?

JS: Horses, aye; they were hungry to death, yer know?

WRM: Which is Dale House?

JS: Up Chapel-le-Dale.

WRM: Up by the Church?

JS: No, further down.

WRM: Further down, ah, yes.

JS: Just past White Scar Cave.

WRM: Who was the farmer at that time?

JS: Brown.

WRM: Is he there now?

JS: No.

WRM: Dead?

JS: Yeah.

WRM: Of course, you don’t want to mention too much of the people who are still living, do yer?

JS: No. [Laughs]

WRM: What was his first name?

JS: Will Brown.

WRM: He’d been caught out, had he, by the weather?

JS: He didn’t bother wi’ ‘ em. He couldn’t care less. He got paid, an’ we it was that kept ‘em alive, but we got nowt.

WRM: Oh, he was just [unclear 00:36:17] was he?

JS: No, ‘is own. An’ ‘e couldn’t care less.

WRM: And where were these sheep, which part of Ingleborough?

JS: On t’White Scar Caves, the worrit land round by White Scar Caves, an’ on theear. He didn’t bother wi ‘em.

WRM: Do the sheep get right up the cliffs, on Ingleborough?

JS: Oh aye, sometime they get stuck like at times.

WRM: Do they?

JS: Aye.

WRM: Have you had them stuck up there?

JS: We’ve had ‘em down t’potholes, like.

WRM: Have yer? Which potholes? Meregill?

JS: Long Kin.

WRM: Aye. And have you had to take ropes up to get ‘em off t’crags?

JS: Aye.

WRM: Who used to do that?

JS: Old Jimmy Sutton.

WRM: Did he? I remember him.

JS: You do?!

WRM: From Newby... his wife’s still living.

JS: No, he never married wa’n’t Jimmy.

WRM: Oh, it must have been… there was a Mr Sutcliffe.

JS: Sutton.

WRM: Oh, Jimmy Sutton, he used to go to t’Whist Drives at Austwick. White hair.

JS: No, that’d be his brother.

WRM: Aye? There was a Mr Sutton; anyway he used to go to Whist Drives.

JS: Yeah, Jimmy were never wed.

WRM: And Jimmy Sutton, what did he do, he got t’rope did he?

JS: Aye, he were roped for t’job like. We got t’rope specially for t’job like.

WRM: Where did Jimmy Sutton live?

JS: At Holly Platt.

WRM: Ah, yes. He was the man who was noted for...?

JS: Yes, Reg Rainworth went down part, yer know?

WRM: So he used to get ropes out to go down potholes? And he also got ‘em off crags, did he?

JS: Yeah, but chiefly down potholes, like.

WRM: The sheep had a pretty rough time in those days, did they, because they wouldn’t be fed as well as they are today would they?

JS: I don’t know, they gave ‘em plenty of hay. They looked after ‘em.

WRM: Aye, they seem to spoil ‘em today, don’t they? If you look at ‘em they roll on their backs to have their stomachs rubbed don’t they? [Laughs] Ah, lovely. And that ’47 winter…

JS: Oh, it were a shocker.

WRM: I mean, nobody would go up Ingleborough, would they?

JS: Well, there were nowt on. Rabbits come down in thousands.

WRM: [Laughs] From Ingleborough?

JS: Oh, aye, they come right down to Whinney Mire they did. There were ‘undreds, yer know, thousands of ‘em.

WRM: Did they?

JS: Aye, they were skin and bone like.

WRM: What, off Ingleborough?

JS: Aye, they were in t’barns an’ in among t’hay, getting’ in ‘ay barns; it were terrible. There were thousands of ‘em come down. There’re usually thousands on Ingleborough, you know?

WRM: Is there, whereabouts?

JS: All t’way; all over Ingleborough.

WRM: Were they? It was a big warren, was it?

JS: Aye, there were rabbits all over. An’ then what do you call ‘im, Murray the gamekeeper he trapped ‘em all wi’ rat-traps, you know?

WRM: Did he?

JS: He got a heck of a lot. He cleaned them out.

WRM: I mean, you were infested with them, I suppose.

JS: Oh, there were thousands on ‘em.

WRM: So it was a bit of disaster that winter was it?

JS: [Laughs] Aye. I wouldn’t like to see another.

WRM: And then when was it that green ends started showing through on the hill?

JS: Only in April.

WRM: Was it?

JS: Aye, an’ we’d a wonderful lambin’ time wi’ t’sheep what were left. Well, we hadn’t lost so many, like. We had a wonderful lambin’ time. Mind you, we ‘ad looked after ‘em.

WRM: What else have you seen up on Ingleborough, I mean when you’ve been shepherding up there? Do you get many foxes up there?

JS: There’s more now then there used to be.

WRM: Is there?

JS: There used to be hardly any, but it’s running with ‘em now. It’s terrible.

WRM: Do people go out shooting them?

JS: They don’t bother as much as they did, but they’re havin’ a bit o’ trouble now wi’ lambs an’ that in the spring.

WRM: Are they?

JS: They’ve brought a lot out of town, yer know, an’ let ‘em go.

WRM: ‘Ave they? Who’s done that?

JS: Well, these good-doers, aren’t they? Somebody said they saw one let a van full go at our gate, up Skirwith, one day.

WRM: Did they?

JS: Aye.

WRM: Why don’t they do ‘em in, down where they are?

JS: Oh, they don’t believe in it, do they?

WRM: No... oh, gosh.

JS: They don’t believe in hunting ‘em now, do they?

WRM: No. So there’s a lot of ‘em are there?

JS: Oh, aye, they went wi’ a lot of lambs last year up t’dale.

WRM: Did they?

JS: They did, aye.

WRM: And round about Ingleborough?

JS: Yeah.

WRM: Whereabouts do you find them on Ingleborough? Where do they get in?

JS: In t’Arks, like. An’ these what they’re lettin’ go out o’ town, they’re not goin’ to ground, you know, they’re stoppin’ on t’top.

WRM: Are they?

JS: They’re never used to goin’ to ground, yer see, they’re sleepin’ out on t’top. They’re bad to get.

WRM: Yeah. You’ll have been up on Ingleborough in some bad weather, won’t you?

JS: I ‘ave that.

WRM: What about wind, have you been blown over?

JS: No, no.

WRM: You’ve been right up on the top often enough.

JS: Oh, aye.

WRM: Somebody says an American’s bought it.

JS: What?

WRM: Top of Ingleborough.

JS: Geraway... I think that’ll only be a tale.

WRM: Will it?

JS: Aye.

WRM: Well, I thought I’d check it out. I thought it was a bit of a tale.

JS: Yeah, it’ll be a tale, that.

WRM: Will it?

JS: Yeah.

WRM: Who is in charge of the Ingleton side now, do they have anybody organising it, or they don’t?

JS: No, I think there’s one or two. I’ve got out o’ touch now, like, you know?

WRM: Yeah.

JS: I’ve given o’er botherin’.

WRM: Pardon?

JS: I’ve given o’er botherin’.

WRM: Oh, have you? Do you get badgers up there too?

JS: No.

WRM: And hawks?

JS: Not many. Fair share of carrion crows up there, like.

WRM: Yeah; yes, the trouble is there aren’t so much of anything these days, are there really?

JS: No.

WRM: You know? There aren’t all that many curlews like there used to be.

JS: Not to what there used to be.

WRM: The place used to ring with them, didn’t it?

JS: Yeah, all birds there’s not a lot left, is there?

WRM: Yeah. Of course, there’d be a lot of grouse in those old days, do you remember it?

JS: Yeah, I remember grouse being on Ingleborough, there’s none now.

WRM: No. I mean, do you remember catching ‘em or shootin’ ‘em?

JS: When I were a lad I used to... when t’telephone wires were up, you know?

WRM: Yeah. Where was that?

JS: On Whinney Mire, on t’main road.

WRM: Yeah?

JS: I used to go an’ look at wire to see if there were any feathers. They used to catch t’weather when they were comin’ across, you know: if they’d been shootin’ they’d come across to Burn Moor. They were alright, you know, they’d just necked thisselves. Oh, I got many a one.

WRM: So really those grouse could... I mean, there was continuous heather all the way across from Burn Moor, across Ingle Moor and up onto Ingleborough?

JS: That’s right.

WRM: So it would be all heather, would it?

JS: Yeah.

WRM: Yeah, there isn’t any now.

JS: No.

WRM: No, what’s the big reason for that?

JS: Over-stockin’, I think.

WRM: Is it?

JS: I think so.

WRM: Were there any old customs at all up round Ingleborough, farming customs?

JS: No, I don’t think so. What there were ‘ave died out, I think.

WRM: Yeah. Ee, well, thanks very much, that’s very helpful of you. Did you mow rushes?

JS: Aye. Not on Ingleborough, on Newby Moor I did.

WRM: You did?

JS: Many hundred a cartful, with t’old scythe.

WRM: And did you get your coal from Ingleton colliery?

JS: Yeah, horse and cart.

WRM: And did you keep goats?

JS: Yeah.

WRM: Did they run up on Ingleborough?

JS: No, ours didn’t like, but there were some on like.

WRM: Whereabouts?

JS: Well, yer know where Crina Bottom House is?

WRM: Yes.

JS: There were a woman from either Leeds or... well, over that way, durin’ war lived there, you know?

WRM: Was there?

JS: She’d a pony an’ trap wi’ goats.

WRM: Did she?

JS: Yeah, for t’milk.

WRM: What, during the last war?

JS: Yeah.

WRM: What, the ‘40s?

JS: Yeah.

WRM: What would they call her?

JS: I’ve no idea. I know she left them, like.

WRM: She left the goats?

JS: On top of Ingleborough, or they went. They’d go into Bradford for t’Pakistanis like, I don’t know when they went like.

WRM: So when she left Crina Bottom she just left the goats on the hill did she?

JS: Yeah.

WRM: And they soon vanished?

JS: Aye, I know where they went like. I knew who took ‘em.

WRM: Eh?

JS: I knew who took ‘em, an’ all!

WRM: Yeah? It wasn’t Rabbity Dick, was it?

JS: No, no... oh, you knew Rabbity Dick? There were some drowned an’ all weren’t there, at Wenning?

WRM: Yeah.

JS: He were a rum lad, wa’n’t he?

WRM: He was. [Laughs] You had to laugh at Rabbity Dick. Anyway, Rob Herd used to go and chase goats over to Trough Gill there, but he was told to go and fetch them just before lambing time.

JS: Yeah.

WRM: That’s what he kept them for.

JS: Yeah, they were alright.

WRM: Yeah; they could be a bit smelly, couldn’t they?

JS: No, billy’s could. Tiny goats were alright.

WRM: You’d got to have wind in your face, hadn’t you? [Laughs]

JS: No, billy’s could smell a bit but t’old goats were alright.

WRM: It’s not a bad fell for sheep then, is it?

JS: No, Ingleborough’s alright. It’s been stocked too hard, that’s t’trouble. Too many on, like.

WRM: Yeah. Is there enough water for ‘em?

JS: Aye. Well, there’s folk took water off Ingleborough, an’ it should never ‘ave been done. Down to High Leys, you know, and that spoilt it a bit for t’sheep.

WRM: Which is High Leys?

JS: Above Cold Cotes.

WRM: Ah, yes.

JS: They took one of the main springs for t’watter for t’farm, like.

WRM: Ah, I see. There were one or two little cuts weren’t there up there, sykes and things?

JS: Yeah.

WRM: An’ it rains up there now an’ again, doesn’t it?

JS: It can do. But one thing, it runs off, dunnit? [Laughs]

WRM: Yeah. Any other tales about Ingleborough?

JS: No, I don’t know that I ‘ave.

WRM: Well, that was lovely anyway, thanks very much. It was very kind of you.

[End of interview - 00:46:04]